Acoustic Magazine - The UK's only Magazine Dedicated to the Acoustic World - Clive Carroll

The acoustic world has a new generation of highly accomplished steel string players. Steve Harvey talks exclusively to one of its leaders, Clive Carroll.

How did you first get involved in playing music?
Before I was born, my parents were playing local clubs. My dad was playing banjo and my mum, who sings traditional Irish songs as well as country hits, played the accordion. They had a friend that played guitar and sang harmonies as well. When I was about seven, we (my sister and I) were taken on the road and we’d have to sit with the old ladies. We loved it because they bought us crisps and Coke all evening! We were both transfixed by what our parents could do, and ended up on the stage with them. We learnt how to play basic chords on stage. By the time I was eight or nine I had also picked up the banjo because the other guy in the trio was giving lessons. He taught me rolls and all the standard bluegrass tunes and so by the time I was 10, my sister and I were virtually fronting the gig!

What is your earliest musical memory?
Well, I don’t really remember it, but I know what it is! I was two and my parents dressed me up in a cowboy suit – complete with Stetson – and wheeled me out on stage with a half-sized banjo and I stood in front of the Chelmsford Irish Association strumming ‘Humpty Dumpty’.

So you’ve grown up surrounded by musical performances…
Yes. While my friends were going out on a Saturday night, I’d be ‘hosing ’em down’ at the Dog And Duck on a Fender Strat – and getting paid a little bit too! When playing with my parents’ band, it was great ear training though because, by about quarter to eleven, every one wants to come up and sing a song. We’d be more than happy for people to do that, but the only problem being that if they sang ‘Danny Boy’ - we’d pass through about six different keys! It was the best training I could have wished for.

You mentioned playing a Strat – shock, horror, an electric guitar?
By the time I had reached say 15 or 16, I was well into the electric guitar. I was into people like Joe Satriani and Steve Vai. I’d be on stage with my parents and mid-way through something like a Daniel O’Donnell classic my mum would turn to me and say, “Take it away Clive”. I’d stand on the Turbo Overdrive pedal and really go for it - Yngwie Malmsteen style! It’s quite funny looking back on it. Eight finger tapping my way through the set. I’ve mellowed out since!

And from there you went into session work…
Yes, that comes from touring around as a solo artist. People notice you as an acoustic guitarist and ask you to come and play on their albums. It’s word of mouth really. I just finished one recently for a film called It’s A Boy Girl Thing where my backing band - not to sound flash - was the London Symphony Orchestra! I had to play guitar in the style of U2’s The Edge. It was recorded in 5.1 surround sound and each tap on the guitar comes out of a different speaker! That was really something and probably my best session to date.

Can you remember a point in your life when you realised you wanted to play music for a living?
Up until the age of 18, I hadn’t really considered making a living playing the guitar, although that was essentially what I was doing. Like most people that age, I didn’t know what I was going to do. The guitar was around me all the time and there wasn’t a day where I didn’t play it. I suppose I knew I wanted to play the guitar for the rest of my life, I just didn’t realise that I’d have to finance it as well! My parents were pretty wise to all of this so they enlisted me into the Colchester Institute where I completed a two-year course for classical guitar playing.
Having played acoustic and electric guitar prior to this, did you have many bad habits to unlearn?
It was certainly a pretty new adventure for me. I had something of a right hand banjo technique and my left hand thumb was sticking over the neck. I had a fantastic teacher there, a lady called Jo Simms who I wasn’t too sure about at first, I didn’t really understand where she was coming from, but now I see just how good she was. She developed my ‘A’ (little) finger. When you play 5-string bluegrass banjos, you rest the ring and little finger on the drum head. That led me on to go for an audition at Trinity College in London.

And you were writing music while at college and university?
Yes, I’d been writing since I was 11 or so. I used to write stuff in thirds or sixths and was never sure why it sounded nice, but I just loved that harmonic ideas and it ended up that I studied composition at Trinity College and guitar as second study so I was writing orchestra music by then. It was only around that time that I decided to take this seriously. But there again, I was writing these hefty contemporary 15 to 20 minute orchestra works and in between them, I’d write these pieces for guitar that worked best on steel string. When I came out of college, it wasn’t the orchestra works that ‘made it’ so to speak, I ended up compiling all those short guitar pieces and that ended up being the first album.

Were the orchestral works composed on guitar?
No, straight to paper. Sometimes I might mess around with the guitar to check harmonies but for the most part whether I’m writing for any orchestral instrument, group or guitar, I have the tunes and harmonies in my head and commit that to paper, then I learn it on the guitar.

How does that work in practice?
I’d have a melody in my head, along with a chord sequence, I’d write it all out and then I can follow the harmonic lines on paper – I can do it on the guitar, but sometimes your hands go into those regular shapes. It might be that I want a tenor-based harmonic line to descend down into the bass voice, I can’t see that on the fretboard sometimes. So, by writing it down, it forces my fingers to move into new territory.

Has that in turn helped your technique?
Absolutely. You can play a melody, and perhaps a bass line as well, but if you’ve got three or four parts working, to make all of those have a direction is just so difficult on a guitar – it’s easy on a piano!

How important would you say formal music schooling is, if someone wants to make a living from playing the guitar?
It all depends on what your voice is. If you are coming from a traditional ‘guitaristic’ background, ie playing traditional guitar music from Nashville - it’s guitar music rather than compositions that happen to be played on the guitar. I think I probably fall somewhere in the middle. I feel now that I have a sound it has only developed over the past two or three years thanks to the formal training, the grounding I had from my parents’ band and also touring around with who I consider to be the best guitarists in the world; John Renbourn, Tommy Emmanuel, Pierre Bensusan, Tony McManus, Albert Lee.

Does your sound have elements from each of these players?
Yes, but strangely that comes from just spending time with them. John took me on the road for two years. You think you can play the guitar until you get out into the real world and then you discover what guitar playing is really about. It’s not just about sitting there practising scales, and learning a repertoire, it’s expressing yourself through that instrument and that only comes with experience.

Both your albums and live sets are filled with such a mixed bag of musical styles. Do you have a type of music that you feel more at home with?
Well, most of the music I play is written by myself and I try and make each piece have a distinct a voice as I can and it’s my voice. So whether I play some Elizabethan lute music or some traditional Irish music, it still has my voice in there. I can’t just restrict myself to playing one style, say blues. I love playing blues, but I love playing Celtic music too and I’ve been playing both all my life. I love playing a classical piece like Benjamin Britten’s ‘Nocturnal’ – which I consider to be the greatest piece ever written for guitar – but it’s still got my voice in it somewhere.

What is it about the acoustic guitar that particularly draws you?
Its resonance… I think – I’m not quite sure! (laughs) I love classical guitars, but I think my music sounds best on a steel string. It has got such a broad spectrum of sounds and, especially when you plug the thing in, you can create a hard grooving bass line while slapping out a tune on the top end. For me that just doesn’t work on a classical – it certainly doesn’t work on an electric. For me the electric is a melodic instrument. If you want to make it harmonic as well, you need to record two guitars. But for the acoustic, you need to try and make the bass line, the melody and some harmony all work – I really enjoy that.
How did you come across Bown Guitars?
Ralph is a one-man outfit based in York. I was using a cheap old thing and when I was touring with Renbourn, that’s what he had – it was great, I really loved it. I remember when John went out for a cup of tea or something, I’d have a quiet plunk on it. Shortly after that, I was very happy to receive a letter from Ralph Bown asking would I like a guitar! Is the Pope Catholic? I thought about it for about… two seconds!

You play an OM shape don’t you?
Yes, mine has got 14 frets but a slightly shorter scale length which allows me to bend the strings.

What’s your onstage setup?
It’s pretty simple because I like to travel light. I use a Highlander system in the guitar – pickup and mic – that comes out in stereo via a stereo lead. I plug that signal into a Ravenlabs PMB1 which then splits the signal. I have treble, mid, bass and volume from the mic and the same from the pickup which I then blend. That goes out into a Lexicon MPX 500 Stereo Reverb unit which turns that into a stereo reverb signal and the left and right go straight to the desk – and that’s it. Quite often you’ll get to a venue and they’ve got rock’n’roll monitors which hiss badly and when you’re trying to play some slow solo acoustic guitar music, the last thing you want is this awful hiss. So, sometimes I carry round a small amp – an AER. The Lexicon has got an extra output, and the amp serves as a monitor.

Do you have a piece of equipment that you just couldn’t live without?
Ping-pong balls.

I’m sorry, did you say ping-pong balls?
Yes, I cut them up and stick them under my nails with Loctite. They are the perfect thickness – lady’s replacement nails are just too thick and don’t actually sound that good. The ping-pong ball pieces sound so much better and are much stronger. If you’ve got 10 or 20 dates in a row your real nails would be shot to pieces.

So how many balls would you go through on an average tour?
One set will last me about five days, depending on how many showers you have! Renbourn uses ping-pong balls too, y’know. It’s got to be done – if you think about it, you’re just grating your nails against cheese wire.

And what gauge ‘cheese wire’ do you use?
12 to 56 Elixir Nanowebs. They’re quite chunky but with a slightly shorter scale length, I can still bend the things. I’ve just signed up an endorsement with Elixir and they’ve estimated that I’ll use one set per month. I recently received my ‘annual’ supply - 12 sets. Man, they only last me 12 gigs! I go through a set a gig, so I’ve had to go back to the shop and buy some more - think of 100 dates at 10 quid a set - ouch!

Do you use many different tunings?
Yes. Standard. Lute tuning, which takes the third string down to a sharp and then capo on the second or third fret. DADGAD and drop-D obviously. Then there’s one where I take the bottom down to a D, the fifth down to a G but the top four stay the same (DGDGBE) – I find that works very well for playing traditional Irish music fingerstyle because if you’re playing a tune in say G on the top strings, then you can create a rhythmic note underneath which would be the fifth fret on the bottom string and because you’ve got those dominant Ds it lends itself well to traditional music – you can play in D, G and A in that tuning and if I need to change the key, I just capo it up. I’ve used some others, but it really depends on the piece i.e. if it goes down to a bottom C then I’ll have to tune it down. DADGAD is also very good for traditional music. It’s also very easy to work with in a session setting, if say they want that Nick Drake-esque sound. I can pick out a melody on the fourth string and the other strings will just kind of waft around in the background.

What music have you bought recently?
I’ve just got myself an iPod - it’s great. On there I’ve got Michelle Thomas’ Learn French Disc 6! There’s a fantastic album called Weddings & Funerals by Goran Bregovic - that is stunning, it’s one of my Desert Island Discs. Celtic Psalm Singing From The Isle of Lewis, Get Rich Or Die Tryin’, by 50 Cent - the production is stunning. There’s another great band called Herbaliser, I really like them. Then I’ve got some Johnny Cash on there - I love ‘Big River’ and ‘Hurt’. I’ve got some Dervish, an album called Midsummers Night. I’ve got some Kronos Quartet. They are a string quartet based in California. Their album called Caravan is just amazing, you’ve never heard anything like it. Technically it’s staggering.

Are there any musicians that you haven’t played with yet that you would like to?
I wouldn’t mind playing with Alison Krauss, I think she’s fantastic. I’d love to meet Bela Fleck, of course, and I’d enjoy playing with 50 Cent. I did some stuff back along with Alexander O’Neal - I was the only white guy in the band, and that was great - he had a double bed on the stage! I feel that I’ve been really fortunate though. I’ve toured round with Tommy Emmanuel. I’ve also had the honour of meeting Bert Jansch which was very nice. On the opposite side of the spectrum, I’ve played with Madonna.
I understand that she writes on an acoustic…
Well she knows all the chords in first position - which is enough really. I heard that Guy bought her guitar lessons for her birthday.

What does the rest of this year hold for you?
Well, since I was young, I’ve played traditional Irish tunes - I know the tunes like a jazz player would know all the standards - but I’ve never really played them with a pic. So, every morning I’m playing them to really refine the jigs and reels as best I can and then make an album of that. I’ve also been writing a lot of solo instrumental guitar music as well as working on a larger scale sound, which will be a nine or 10 piece group with a guitar at the front - those are the projects that are all in the pipeline. Next January I’m touring America and Canada and then back again in July.

Do you enjoy touring?
Absolutely. There nothing better than turning up at a venue at around five, setting up, mooching around the dressing room with a glass of red and then going on stage to play to a couple of hundred people. Knowing that they’ve all come to listen to me and my music is so satisfying. That feeling means a lot more to me than strumming G, C and D for pop stars.

When watching you live, I’ve noticed there’s a lot of warmth and humour in your performance - particularly during the ‘in-between’ bits. Are you comfortable on stage?
I’ve only been playing the solo stuff for about four years. Before that, I’d been playing in groups and didn’t have to ‘take’ the show. So that was something I had to learn, because I didn’t have it. At first, it was quite nerve-racking. I really had to concentrate on the pieces, but at the same time, I was conscious that the piece was going to finish in say 30 seconds, and I’d be thinking “What am I going to say next?” I find that an audience want that as much as the music. I haven’t sat down with a clipboard and put a plan together, but it’s helped standing in the wings watching Renbourn and Tommy – the very best at work.
Presumably you don’t have to concentrate so much on the pieces now, though?
Sure, it helps that I’ve been playing the pieces for quite a long while. It’s just experience. Having said that when I play a new piece, I have to get my head down – it takes a good five or six gigs for it to settle in. But for the most part now, I don’t have to worry too much about the technique when I play live, it’s more about making them as musical as possible. Ironically, sometimes the more you concentrate on pieces, the more nervous you can get and then you start to play quicker and by the end of the tune you’re playing at 100 miles an hour instead of sitting in the groove.

Have you had any nasty experiences on stage?
I’ve had strings go, but that doesn’t really matter. I did have a nasty accident on my way to the airport for some big gigs in Italy where I tore my thumbnail half off. I had to cancel gigs and I had to play with a thumb pick for a while. As it began to heal, I cut a suitably sized piece of ping-pong ball and just stuck the nail back down with superglue. That was painful and took months to heal. I remember also a compère mis-read my name, seeing an ‘O’ instead of a ‘C’. He announced, “Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Olive Carroll”! That was hysterical.

Have you ever played air guitar and, if so, what to?
Yes. I’ve got two children - a three and a half year old and a seven year old - it’s great fun to jump around on the settees with them playing air guitar. We’ll put on either Far Beyond Driven by Pantera or the 15th Anniversary album by Phil Hilbourne who’s an old mate of mine - he can really pull it out and my son loves it.

Steve Harvey

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